Curse

Crimso · Apr 04, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Necromancer:

Animate Bone Horror: decreased Energy cost to 10.
Animate Vampiric Horror: decreased Energy cost to 15.
Enfeebling Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
Mark of Fury: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Mark of Subversion: changed duration to 6 seconds.
Poisoned Heart: decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased recharge time to 12 seconds.
Price of Failure: increased recharge time to 20 seconds.
Reckless Haste: increased Energy cost to 15.
Soul Reaping: now only provides Energy at a maximum rate of once every 5 seconds.

Soul Reaping's synergy with Spirits and minions opened up a lot of builds that simply never ran out of power. Spirits still provide half Energy, and with Soul Reaping's Energy gain limited, a player death will now provide more net Energy, which we believe will help Soul Reaping get closer to its intended function. Mark of Fury was strictly inferior to Dark Fury, so we reduced the cost of Mark of Fury in hopes that this improves its playability. Mark of Subversion was changed to match the duration of Diversion, Shame, Mistrust, and Guilt, which keeps these one-time Hexes consistent with one another. Reckless Haste had its cost increased, and Price of Failure received a duration decrease to make it more difficult to keep these powerful Hexes on a large number of people. Poisoned Heart became cheaper and now recharges faster for some fun, creative play, and Enfeebling Touch has been improved so that it's more in line with other applications of Weakness.

For soul reaping it seems it will be 1 energy gain every 5 seconds but Gaile Gray has mentioned the net gain is higher for player deaths so I'm thinking a players death is worth double soul reapings level and NPC's,Pets,Minions and monsters should be equal to soul reaping and spirits half.

I find the rest of the changes pretty good for all of the classes except mesmers that have been nerfed a bit more due to diversions change.

One of the real intresting changes I can see is dwarven battle stance just put on brutal weapon 1st then run up to the target(Magic user) and samsh down on them with fast attacks with a 10...25 bonus and interuption.

The Fox · Apr 04, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I've never played a M.M. for a necro; however, they are my favorite class.

Soul Reaping every 5 seconds... blah! It's rediculous that you gave a way for the energy abundant minon masters to still maintain their function, BUT ripped off the rest of the creative necro builds that do not spam minons. Wasn't minons and spirits the problem in the first place? Why not reduce the energy gain from them dying or just remove it.

P.S. - How many of the necro's skills are actually minon skills? Answer = very few yet that's what's getting babied.

EDITED: sorry for my bad mood... i'm probably being to quick to judge.

ensoriki · Apr 04, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

I just have to lol whenever someone from XoO wants to be a smartass with an opinion about PvP. Why would weapon removal spells be retarded? Last time I checked, there are plenty of counters to Shouts, and none of the Shouts are really overpowered. If you look at Weapon Spells, though, they're doing the EXACT same thing as Enchantments, with no condition. Shouts like "I Will Survive!" have a condition for the health regen, which is why they don't really need to be removed. They're inherently balanced. Weapon Spells, though, can't be removed, and have ridiculous effects. Health regen and chance to block, etc and so forth.

You can only have 1 weapon spell at a time.

So you have 1 unremovable skill, but you cant have multiples

but you can have a ton of enchants,

Its a fair trade off if they're were multiple Weapon spells there be a problem, removable or not they are rather strong.

Jecht Scye · Apr 04, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Soul Reaping isn't nerfed for PvE. The majority of the energy you gain is from dead creatures, followed by minions anyway. If anything, this soul reaping update may strengthen Necromancers in the PvE environment. I can't speak for PvP though.

savage vapor 33 · Apr 04, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Is this it for skill changes? i thought there were supposed to be a lot more than just this...Maybe im mistaken.

Shmanka · Apr 04, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Where is the updates on the other 100 useless to every degree skills?

Oh wait DIVERSION GOT NERFED WTF IZZY?!@

NECRO'S STILL OWN HA JUST MAKE THEM NOT GAIN ENERGY FROM SPIRITS BUT MINIONS YES.

Please Gaile... tell me it's April 1st 11am...

I have no idea what to say, this feels like the Fable hype gone 100x worse.

Assasin: Definitely the only good part of this skill balance update. This is a huge step in the correct direction. Keyword step. I would really reconsider alot of the lead attacks and their restrictions but I cannot complain.

Dervish: Nicely done IMO, I would like the longer durations except I would still love it if you changed Grenth's mechanic.

Mesmer: This is a huge slap in the face, you take away GoLE and then give us NO energy management anymore? In all honesty I am about to really look at every single skill in GW and post it in these forums, you guys really aren't thinking half of these skills through, period.

Paragon: Acceptable there seems to be a problem with the general population that the paragons have too much armor. In a real sense I agree, although if you downed the armor I would give them increased energy. Is there a problem having paragons AL 70(+30 phy)?

Ele: The reduction on the cast time is acceptable, and highly needed...sadly the enchantment doesnt overlap the cooldown, SDH is still going to be widely used.

Monk: ZB nerf?... wow... that was the only good Hybrid monk build left... you really want RC/WoH combinations back don't you? Hex removal still sucks. Why not nerf half the hexes on the necro?

Necro: Not going there right now... this is a slap on the wrist.

Warrior: Good move on crippling slash, although there were alot of good suggestions in my thread already. I'll just change the skill. Shields up I agree was too much for its effect, good nerf... where is the incentive to use any shouts on the warrior though anymore? I think you need to really look at the warrior line, and decide what it actually does.

Ranger: Nice! Nothing bad to complain about. Yet where is our Crippling Shot buff? What about the overcosted bow attacks?

Rit: I don't care anymore, my rit is a useless storage mule.

ss1986v2 · Apr 04, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage vapor 33

Is this it for skill changes? i thought there were supposed to be a lot more than just this...Maybe im mistaken.

i think this may be it for skills (could be wrong, but i dont think so). but i think from the hints dropped that we will see a fair amount of non skill changes as well.

*prays for gvg map changes*

Nekretaal · Apr 04, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

how do we know that? no one knows how the new SR will work exactly. until we see it, we cant say it will or will not work.

Of course we know how it works. It was just explained above:

After a death, there is a 5 second period where soul reaping is disabled. Otherwsie it works as it does now.

So, suppose you have 10 soul reaping. the maximum amount of energy you can get from soul reaping is 10 every 5 seconds (which will be greater than 5 seconds in reality because deaths are unpredictable), and you also get 7 energy from narural energy regen.

How are you supposed to use bone fiends, which cost 25 energy, if you are capped at 17 energy in the 5 second period after a death?

Granted, Bone horror had its cost reduced, but (1) bone horror sucks (2) Vampiric Horror and shambling horros did not have their casts reduced either, and (3) minions tax your energy by needing to be healed all the time and healing the minions requires that you heal yourself which additionally, (4) Bone horror is still too expensive in both its casting cost and recharge to be a primary minion, and (5) bone horror is a prophecies only skill so Nightfall and Factions MMs, your out of luck.

MM as we know it is dead.

And it doesnt "fix" pvp either, except to force teams into spiritway.

makosi · Apr 04, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I'm happy with this update. The mesmers took a beating but everything else, including Soul Reaping, is fine. Can we please enhance Ether Feast please?

The Soul Reaping issue had to be fixed because too many teams in HoH were using that Spirit spamming necro/monk build. From peoples' previous calculations, its as effectively like the Necros have greater regen than an ele with Ether Prodigy so I suppose fair is fair.

Also, Glyph+ZB monks were too common that it was predictable. Virtually every Mo/E in the top Guild Battles was using the very same build. ZB isn't dead though.

zwei2stein · Apr 04, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Assassin:

-looks good enough-

Dervish:

* Avatar of Balthazar: increased duration to 10..90.
* Avatar of Dwayna: increased duration to 10..75.
* Avatar of Grenth: increased duration to 10..45.
* Avatar of Lyssa: increased duration to 10..90.

- you are going not to keep theese changes anyway ... 90 secs on lyss? no way -

Elementalist:

* Glyph of Lesser Energy: now reduces the cost of your next 2 spells by 10..18 Energy, based on the Energy Storage attribute.

- can live with it, its in fact buff for primaries -

Mesmer:

* Auspicious Incantation: changed to "For 20 seconds, the next spell you cast is disabled for an additional 10..5 seconds, and you gain 110..200% of that spell's Energy cost."

- nerfs ... again? this is no funny anymore. plus, auspicipius change is gonna be regreted, its bascially two free spells regargless of cost, even with 0 inspiration its GoLE back and still kicking -

Monk:

* Reversal of Damage: decreased recharge time to 6 seconds.

- still to slow recharge ... -

Necromancer:

* Soul Reaping: now only provides Energy at a maximum rate of once every 5 seconds.

- I think i missed part where ALL necromancer skill costs were reduced. big, BIG thumbs down, this is hardly good change, i fact its quitecatatrophic for PvE. would simple: "Sould reaping provides no energy for allied spirits" be too much? -

Paragon:

* Anthem of Fury: decreased recharge time to 10 seconds, now only affects party members.
* Anthem of Flame: now only affects party members.
* Anthem of Guidance: now only affects party members.
* Crippling Anthem: now only affects party members.

- I missed part where it was overused and breaking game, way to bring down clever usage of skills -

Ranger:

* Otyugh's Cry: changed to "For 10..25 seconds, all allied animal companions gain +24 armor and cannot be blocked."

- wow, finbally touched it? -

Ritualist:

- promoting gimmics? eww -

Warrior:

* Dwarven Battle Stance: increased attack speed boost to 33%.

- interesting, finally with skill looks decent, for nonelite, shame its still elite. -

---

Over all i am extremelly EXTREMELLY disappointed with SR change - taking spirits out of equation would fix it for PvP for good while leaving PvE intact. seems like someone out there really want to add fuell PvE vs PvP arguments :-/

In fact, PvE sr nerfs overshaddows any positive stuff from this update for me ... sigh.

ss1986v2 · Apr 04, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekretaal

Of course we know how it works. It was just explained above:

After a death, there is a 5 second period where soul reaping is disabled. Otherwsie it works as it does now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

a player death will now provide more net Energy

according to what has been stated, it in fact does not work as it currently does. and until this bit is explained, im reserving judgment.

reading ftw!

crimsonfilms · Apr 04, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Also, Glyph+ZB monks were too common that it was predictable. Virtually every Mo/E in the top Guild Battles was using the very same build. ZB isn't dead though.

That is beause not every skill is good and all monks must react to the same meta.
While PvE allows you more flexibility in builds (because you know the EXACT skills you need to counter and the behavior is exactly the same), PvP in reality has a limited skill pool they can take from.

It does not mean new combinations can't be found.

I Will Heal You Ally · Apr 04, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Wow I love the small but good buffs for Eles. Although I'm not sure how will GoLE work with Heal Party in PvE? It might be interesting now.
I can't wait untill I test my Dervish in AB. Gotta love Balthazar
Poor necros and their minions! Guess they won't be getting a lot of energy from wiping minions with pbaoes. Well I guess necros will rely on hexes now. Although I do not understand why didn't you lower the energy cost of Animate Bone Fiend since this nerf. POOR MM HEROS!
As far for Rangers I can see them pwning in the Hard Mode . Was that the intention?

Exoudeous · Apr 04, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekretaal

Of course we know how it works. It was just explained above:

After a death, there is a 5 second period where soul reaping is disabled. Otherwsie it works as it does now.

So, suppose you have 10 soul reaping. the maximum amount of energy you can get from soul reaping is 10 every 5 seconds (which will be greater than 5 seconds in reality because deaths are unpredictable), and you also get 7 energy from narural energy regen.

How are you supposed to use bone fiends, which cost 25 energy, if you are capped at 17 energy in the 5 second period after a death?

Granted, Bone horror had its cost reduced, but (1) bone horror sucks (2) Vampiric Horror and shambling horros did not have their casts reduced either, and (3) minions tax your energy by needing to be healed all the time and healing the minions requires that you heal yourself which additionally, (4) Bone horror is still too expensive in both its casting cost and recharge to be a primary minion, and (5) bone horror is a prophecies only skill so Nightfall and Factions MMs, your out of luck.

MM as we know it is dead.

And it doesnt "fix" pvp either, except to force teams into spiritway.

Do you even play mm, cause it dosesnt sound like you do. and if you are sitting and waiting for energy then soul reaping isnt your problem, you need better energy management.

gasmaskman · Apr 04, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Wow, I just noticed. 90 seconds of frickin' panic when you have Avatar of Balthazar. 90 seconds out of 150 (152) will be filled with a 33% speed boost and +40 armor. Are you insane?

Guardian of the Light · Apr 04, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Overall it looks pretty good.

I don't see why everyone is complaining about The soul reaping nerf.

I notice while playing MM my energy goes from 0 to max often because I get a lot of energy when everything dies but after I use 2 minion spells I go back to 0.

With this I can use more Minion spells over time. Also the Rit/N MM could be a little more viable.

With the pet command system I'm wondering if a pet pressure build could be viable.

Randomway Ftw · Apr 04, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Wow, I just noticed. 90 seconds of frickin' panic when you have Avatar of Balthazar. 90 seconds out of 150 (152) will be filled with a 33% speed boost and +40 armor. Are you insane?

Its actualy 90 out of 120 seconds, disabled doesn't stack with recharge.

ss1986v2 · Apr 04, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Wow, I just noticed. 90 seconds of frickin' panic when you have Avatar of Balthazar. 90 seconds out of 150 (152) will be filled with a 33% speed boost and +40 armor. Are you insane?

yeah, i really want to see how the new avatars are used. its going to be a fun couple of weeks ahead lol.

savage vapor 33 · Apr 04, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Wow, I just noticed. 90 seconds of frickin' panic when you have Avatar of Balthazar. 90 seconds out of 150 (152) will be filled with a 33% speed boost and +40 armor. Are you insane?

Dervishes on roids and GHB for about 90 seconds, then suicidal and depressed for 30, well done.

Wheres the nerf to BoA sins?

Anticle_Aurelius · Apr 04, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Soul Reaping should have stayed the same except no energy gain for spirits, bam problems solved, and PvE and PvP would be balanced. And if they want this to stay PLEASE MAKE BONE FIENDS A LOWER ENERGY COST